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That Trump supporters regard him as a delicious get-back joke on the Republican establishment. That the democrats see Sanders could win and Hillary lose but prefer losing to the kind of change Sanders offers:


A poster. Have you seen this movie? maybe we all ought to go.

Friends and readers,

I came to a realization that Trump supporters are inoculated against any criticism of the man when no one appears to take seriously his trashing a judge for rightly exposing his fraudulent university. We now know what will be Trump's criteria for choosing a judge for the supreme court; someone who acquits him of all his fraudulent dealings and hides all evidence from the public. No one who has power to do anything does anything. He's not held in contempt of court for example

He insults newspaper reporters by making a "fuck" signal with his hand and by name calling someone a sleaze and then promising to do all he can to stop freedom of the press when he is president and on record saying he will get back. And these people who back him say nothing.

He is a crook indicted for a fraudulent university. His books show that he urged all employees (taught them) how to high pressure prospective students, and encouraged them to max out all their credit cards to buy his outrageous fees.  Yes they should have seen then this is a mean cruel crook. Uses gangster techniques (why he wanted that evidence not to attract attention so began ethnic slurs on the judge).

So why write about Trump. What can I contribute? One not unimportant mood of his supporters I've not noticed anyone talking about:

I had a long talk with a Trump supporter the other day, a young man making a very good income, white, who had a 2 year technical degree. He appeared to be a reasonable person and kept saying he was someone who tolerated all people's views. I personally have liked him and find him a sweet helpful young man. His is gentlemanly in all his ways. I want to stress too how kind I find him, with a real sense of courtesy and making the thoughtful remark that helps one through a conversation or something you need to do together.

Well, I found he dismissed what ever criticism I brought up. Trump knows nothing of the nuclear system in the US. He's not "scholarly." Trump committed fraud. That is what businessmen are and see how rich he is. (Meanwhile Hillary is a crook. He moved from one side of an issue to another to exculpate and admire Trump.) He appeared to believe immigrants are being treated unfairly because they are given so many advantages when they come to the US. The US is all powerful he assumed and he wanted it to stay that way. No one would dare I suppose he though to attack the US. He was against all global policies; an America firster. He seemed not to know much history; he kept using the term "centuries" for US history.

You've heard all this before.

What I'm leaving out is the glue, the tone or soup in which these things are said. He kept grinning. At first I thought this was a way of being polite. But then I began to see he regarded Trump getting into office as a delicious get-back at the establishment. Trump need not be respectful of his GOP colleagues because it is precisely this elite establishment that this young man probably resents, though he wouldn't say so. He just said Ryan and his type were a waste of time. "We don't need such people."

But don't mistake the tone. Trump himself is funny, a joke on everyone else's incompetence to deal with "this problem."  Trump's insults are crucial here, funny because he is mocking the establishment. All these positions we talked of were fun because none of them mattered. This is more than Trump exposing the hypocrisy around him ("telling it like it is," which this young man did not say but others do), it's surely taking a kind of revenge on people like Ryan -- and yes Hillary Clinton too, for she's the same type. She is in the hands of corporate wealth and does their bidding just like Ryan. She is a military hawk spending billions to overthrow gov'ts in the middle east, take the oil or whatever is the natural or market resource to exploit directly or indirectly.

At some level he loathes Ryan far more than the democrats he simply dismisses. He gets a kick out thinking Ryan is squirming. He said that many people will come out to vote in this election who have been staying home.

He said how hard he had worked since age 15. He had paid for all he had gotten. He did not get a BA from a senior college because this is a waste of time and money. He is aware that he didn't have the "other" courses -- he would not at all be in sympathy with the people defrauded by Trump university. They deserved it for their false aspirations.

This is important. You cannot get a Trump supporter to take seriously anything you say because the point of voting Trump in is to make a joke of all that is. It's all very funny. None of the world's serious problems matter. "Other" people don't matter. Other countries. Judges, courts, blacklivesmatter. Guns. Climate change is a myth. Poof.

Meanwhile Sanders has won the last 19 primaries, he may take California and no one inside the democratic establishment moves to support him seriously.

The democratic establishment is refusing to admit Sanders can beat Trump and Clinton may not, because like the Germans until well after 1939 (when Hitler's regime had turned literally murderous to all its citizens, and was waging horrific war on gov'ts and peoples outside Germany), the German elite persisted in thinking he was a bulwark against communism and/or real socialism. They individually thought they would or could survive and many did. So the democratic establishment prefers Trump to Sanders. But they are not doing this as a joke.  They (each individual person, each clique, each institution) wants to keep their power and wealth just as it is. Sanders threatens that with say his proposed ban on fracking, his plan to enable students to escape banks. She is a hawk, will keep up all the client gov't groups in the middle east (no matter how horrific as in the case of Saudi Arabia), will cooperate utterly with the corporations and will not do anything against their interests; she and her husband ended welfare for women (and their death rate is way up), started mass incarceration for black men, ended controls on the banks. Those supporting her with big money don't care if she's a woman and will throw bones and alleviations at and for women when she's in office. Women's position? remember the addition to the 14th amendment that extended rights to women was a joke.



Reporters have to protect themselves too -- beyond insults, from prison, destruction and in many places in the world murder. So there are tight limits on what they can say already. They can reports the facts that they unearth and tell us what is literally happening insofar as they can find out day by day. A few then try to make sense of these facts, put them into perspective so they make sense, come to be a form of understanding what they have found out.

At first I thought Sanders was doing wrong to offer to debate Trump. I feared he would marginalize Clinton this way, give Trump a chance to insult her by becoming a sort of buddy on stage. I was wrong. Trump saw that this was a debate he might lose because Sanders would take him seriously. Answer him with real truths and remain resolutely serious and earnest. That's a game Trump decided it was not in his interest to play. It's in his interest to say outrageous and therefore "funny" (using the word complexly) remarks.

This is not to say I won't vote for Hillary. I will. Trump will drag the US (if he can) into lawlessness, corruption, censorship of the press (and courts, and the Internet). She will be a centrist democrat.

We should look for what people regard as jokes and why. What jokes they like and/or repeat. Feminism is not quite a joke (by the way)

Miss Drake

Comments

( 5 comments — Leave a comment )
misssylviadrake
Jun. 3rd, 2016 02:43 pm (UTC)
Will Hillary "mash" Trump?
My friend, Mike: "Clinton will mash Trump the way Reagan mashed Carter. Clinton has so far out-polled Sanders substantially in the primaries, 12 million to 9 million. Most of Sanders' wins are caucuses, which can be manipulated by aggressive supporters.

My formerly neutral opinion about Sanders has been turned negative by his behavior and some of his statements, particularly about Clinton. He does not have a record of leadership, she does. He is a career politician, she was first elected to office at age 53.

Although he talks a good game, Sanders offers no real plans to implement any of his promises. He has one of the worst bipartisanship scores in the Congress.

This primary circus is a good illustration of a fundamental flaw in the Democratic Party. We've been out of power in the Congress for years, and have no strategy to regain it. Without influence in Congress, the Presidential election is titular. Sure, she can appoint judges and doodle around the edges of policy, but Congress makes the laws and the budgets. Democrats seem to have no stomach for the long game, working at all the lower levels to get candidates elected back into Congress."

Me: I don't agree at all. I dislike her hawkish policies in the middle east and latin and south america .I see her as front for ruthless thuggery there. She's moved from the centrist right in her social positions because the electorate is going for Sanders -- you forget how much money he's raised and that these wins are hard won. He picked up big states too. Far from regarding him as the lusting for power hypocrite, I see him as a genuine FDR democrat. I don't know that he could win a general election because the newspapers and establishment would trumpet views like those you've just articulated. I have never forgiven her for destroying welfare for women; her attitude towards working class women in her It Takes a Village is awful. I'll stand by my blog: the establishment in the democrats are prepared (they think) to sit through Trump.

I've read some of his instrumental plans and they are workable, their goals very good. He'd need a democratic congress and one that is liberal in orientation and in this country that is hard to get.

Finally that many of Trump supporters are voting for him as a kind of get-back joke is important. The democrats think Hillary will win because he's outrageous, an open thug; they are miscalculating: the Trump supporter loves the outrageousness; they'll vote him all the more each horrible thing he says or does because they regard that as another joke exposing whoever it is the vicious slur is aimed at.
misssylviadrake
Jun. 3rd, 2016 03:08 pm (UTC)
Again Hillary's politics and possible win; complicity of democrats
From Mike:

https://privacyontheline.net/2016/03/26/hillary-clintons-cv/

Right, he's not going to get a Democratic Congress. Then what? Clinton has shown that she can get things done even when the cards are not stacked in her favor. As chair of the Legal Services Corporation board, she tripled funding for indigent legal services -- under President Reagan. I think she will win because she's the best candidate in the field."

"I don't disagree with your assessment of Trump's supporters. They are loud, but they are not the majority of the electorate. Even during the primaries, he was not getting overwhelming support from Republicans, and registered Republicans only represent about 1/3 of the electorate"
misssylviadrake
Jun. 3rd, 2016 03:11 pm (UTC)
Again Hillary's poliics and possible win; complicity of democrats
Your list of all her awards doesn't impress me; none of them specify any good for individuals. Your own last detail shows some good done. Some of the things she's gotten done have been very bad. I'd prefer to believe she'll win and I'll vote her but I've grave doubts she will and my guess is like in 1932 or whenever it was Hitler first got the central powerful office in Germany and many individuals thought they'd ride it that is what we are seeing on both "sides of the aisle.

But you do disagree with my assessment of why democrats are okay with Hillary all the while she loses so often. I'm saying Trump is more acceptable to many not just some of them, or the most powerful, than Sanders. This may be over pessimistic. I hope I'm wrong. But fear I'm not. I do like you cling to the idea the primaries only brought out a small percentage of the electorate.

Edited at 2016-06-03 03:14 pm (UTC)
misssylviadrake
Jun. 3rd, 2016 04:27 pm (UTC)
Defending Hillary as having won
MIke: "How does she "lose so often"? She has beaten him in something like 9 of 10 primaries which were votes, not caucuses. She got 30% more votes in doing so. I'm surprised you regard Planned Parenthood, World Food Program, Martin Luther King Center, &c as being valueless for individuals. Nonetheless, the real point is that she has been out in the world, the real world, doing the things that these organizations think are worth doing. There's more to her career than the bad things she's done."

Me: If you're implying something about me (she's out "in the real world" -- unlike me?) I have not done that in talking to you. I notice you tend to attack those who support Sanders as well as Sanders and intemperately. I do not so attack Clinton.. I assure you I've experienced the real world and do today still experience it; if my suffering seems mild, the argument I'm therefore not qualified to talk won't wash. I wish everyone to have some of the chance luck I've had. I don't demand others behave exemplarily to "deserve" this. I do not think you would be otherwise than horrified at a Trump victory. I understand such organizations do some real good but what is wanted is a real change to real progression in the tax system, in the priorities and goals of the US, a tremendous cut in the military budget: I think Sanders stands for this kind of change.

I don't know why you are so fiercely for her to be honest. I dislike her. I could say why but it would be irrelevant to any principles.
misssylviadrake
Jun. 3rd, 2016 04:48 pm (UTC)
Hillary will make a great president
My friend Catherine: "Hillary Clinton will be a great president. The irony of this situation is Shakespearean. Hillary Clinton has been subject to more public abuse than any other politician, man or woman. She has developed a thick skin. Trump is no politician. He is used to getting his way and to scaring opponents into silence by threatening to sue them. Yet how thin a skin he has!

Me: I'm glad to see you're for her, Catherine.
( 5 comments — Leave a comment )

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